Mamba vs Mamba Creeker - Why are there two?

I'm new to the whole world of whitewater kayaking. I've been doing flat water for a little over a year now. I'm looking into getting a Mamba, but I'm kind of confused between the two options here.

It looks as if the Creeker version is a bit more nicely made up with the plastic step out pillar vs a foam wedge and the seat *looks* like it is put together nicer, but I'm not 100% sure about that since I'm new. I've also read on this forum that somebody felt like the Creeker version sat very low. I'm not sure what that feels like since I've only done touring boats!

I'm only finding the regular Mamba in the stores around me (new and used), so I'm just making sure that if I get the regular Mamba, that I won't be getting the wrong boat.

Why would one choose one over the other? Does one have better benefits over the other for a beginner? Is the regular Mamba a sort of old design that will eventually be phased out in favor of the Creeker (or maybe the other way around?)

Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by George Bergantz on May 10, 2011 at 12:19am

Good question! I may be the guy who mentioned that the creek model had a low seat (for me). There are many boats (river runners) out there to choose from and a lot of it is how well you fit in the boat. I fit much better in a Mamba than a Diesel, but I also fit great in a Remix but they were too long for my taste. So I started out with the Mamba 'play' model which I bought used. It was great, for as I was rather new to boating. There was a lot of adjustment in the seat and it was very responsive and rolled very easily and was comfortable for a long-legged guy. It was love at first paddle! But as my skills progressed, and I also decided that I wanted a new Mamba for keeps, so I sold my used Mamba 'play' for the very same price that I bought it for. There were features in the 'Creek' model that appealed to me, especially the step-out pillar and more burley seat. But the trade-off was that it took me some time to adjust to the more 'bucket' form and position of the seat. Point being that you might get a used Mamba 'play'- try it for a year or so, then sell it (they hold their value) and upgrade to the Creek model. My play model (in my mind) will always be a bit easier to roll than my Creek model, and I use a Jackson Sweet Cheeks to give me some lift in my Creek model seat.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with either, and if you are truly new to ww boating I would definitely buy a used one first and then once you are sure, invest in a new one. Just my two bits, maybe the Dagger experts can provide much better advice,

Cheers from Seattle

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Holcombe on May 15, 2011 at 12:40pm

Hey Dean,

Good to hear you're getting into whitewater! In response to your questions above the Mamba regular and creek version are the same boat design. The only difference is Creeker has the same seat and step out pillar that comes in the Nomad (which is our full on creek boat designed for very steep, technical water). Dagger offers this because some folks like the characteristics of the Mamba for harder whitewater and this outfitting set up provides a bit more structural integrity and safety for those circumstances. You absolutely would not be getting the wrong boat if you purchase the regular version. It's outfitting setup provides more adjustment and is lighter (makes it easier to carry). Both options will continue to be available and the regular version is actually more popular. Let us know if you have any more questions and enjoy your kayak!

be safe

Andrew Holcombe

Team Dagger

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Permalink Reply by Laura Gregory on March 24, 2012 at 12:11pm

Are you able to change the outfitting to the set up that the creeker has if you buy the regular Mamba?

Andrew Holcombe said:

Hey Dean,

Good to hear you're getting into whitewater! In response to your questions above the Mamba regular and creek version are the same boat design. The only difference is Creeker has the same seat and step out pillar that comes in the Nomad (which is our full on creek boat designed for very steep, technical water). Dagger offers this because some folks like the characteristics of the Mamba for harder whitewater and this outfitting set up provides a bit more structural integrity and safety for those circumstances. You absolutely would not be getting the wrong boat if you purchase the regular version. It's outfitting setup provides more adjustment and is lighter (makes it easier to carry). Both options will continue to be available and the regular version is actually more popular. Let us know if you have any more questions and enjoy your kayak!

be safe

Andrew Holcombe

Team Dagger

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Permalink Reply by George Bergantz on March 25, 2012 at 12:51pm

I believe the answer is no. The seat assembly in the Creeker is fundamentally different. But the Dagger experts can maybe reply. BTW, since I last posted on this issue, I now find the creeker as easy to roll as the play model and I no longer use the sweet cheeks, as I like the rather lower seating position of the creek outfitting now that I am used to it.